Do not donate until the Google Groups are shut down.

[Todd]

So you are claiming that the vote to move to cermack was undemocratic ? That the whole month that it took and roughly 50 people, and involved like 12 meetings, many of which took place at a McDonalds not more then 1 block from HQ, was all a secret.

Sure, that makes sense.

I can understand some people were not happy with that discussion, you probably don't recall but I was one of the few who voted against in, in favor of the location that was closer to McCormick place, in the end after all was presented and cermack was brought up to vote for like the 5th time, I voted for it. I do believe that is the definition of democracy. So explain to me again how that was undemocratic. Because some people took it upon themselves to have meetings about it above and beyond the general meetings, to visit kinkos and make those binders ? OH THE HUMANITY! PAPERWORK!
apparently people are expecting this paperwork to form out of thin air ?


Your second paragraph is telling me to take a break from occupy, because I say what can be construed as mean things on the internet, more to the point, I am not here for your approval or disapproval, It is interesting that you disapprove of me pointing out the facts in how someone else is wrong.

"I think it was OccupyGuy) that not all decisions are made at the GA. The General Assembly is like Occupy's Congress and people go to committees to come up with plans of action and then present them to General Assembly where we vote on them."

First, of course not all decisions are made at GA, it takes literally hours and a ton of preparation to get a single thing approved at GA, What is the point of having committees if everything must be approved at GA ?

The committees themselves are congress, GA is the vote for large decisions, much like, a representative democracy, like the one we are supposed to be living in.

The website and this forums and the google groups, were all created without GA approval, if you feel all decisions should be made through GA, then we should take all these down immidiatly pending GA approval.


Next, I do like how you made this all about the hackerspace, without making any points. All you say is "please stop using the hackerspace, its not for the unwashed masses (Occupy)"

Somehow I am not saddened at all about you being disappointed in me "attacking someone so virulently" when, aside from personal commentary I have only laid out facts, however when the person I am "virulently attacking" lays out a bunch of lies, that's ok. I'll try to be more "cool" for you.

[occupyguy]

First, I think it is hilarious that you are saying "don't donate"
even though we have gotten very few donations since it has gotten cold, meaning you must not be paying much attention as people haven't been donating. There was actually a google groups thread that you were in, that made this point quite a few times, but I can understand that reading and comprehension are two different things.

I don't participate in OC. I haven't since I got into it with oc_housing on nov 25th. 2011. OC has gotten very few donations because it has strayed too far from it's purpose and mission. This is why I started this thread.

This would of course explain all the proceeding lines filled with paranoia and hate, I do like that you only defense of it was "so what if its a poorly worded rant"

But enough of that, lets move on to your points!

"it is very funny that the most vocal folks in the Google Groups have hardly posted in the website discussion forum, hung out at Jackson & LaSalle, etc. "

I find it even funnier that this couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, and you can poll OC for this, a large proportion of people who plan and attend events, such as myself, visit the google groups every day, while reading the forums closer to once a week to 2 weeks. This is what gives you the impression of "secrecy" since you neither plan nor attend the events. Also being one of those people, I can safely say, I hang out @ J&L more then you. So this point is wrong.

No, what gives me the impression of secrecy is that there are lots of secrets being kept and decisions being made behind closed doors.

"Don't rent 500 W. Cermak." well we already know how that went. I want to applaud you for waiting almost 2 months AFTER we already voted on moving into cermak to make this point, way to be on the ball.

"Everyone, except for a very minute group of individuals" I am glad that you think 90% of some of the larger GAs we have had, is a "very minute group of individuals"

And the crown jewel "Maybe some government plants want Occupy Chicago to rent this place to drain the funds and make us easier to heard into a corner"

Words fail me on this one, All I can say is, please go back to watching "Ancient Aliens" on TV and stop wasting the time of those people who are trying to improve our world.

I never said the GA or vote related to 500 w. Cermak was undemocratic. However, I do think that people should re-evaluate this decision and many are doing so except for a "very minute group of individuals" like yourself.

On another note, just the veracity of your tone suggests that you are very concerned about my post and creates the inference that it has substantial merit. If I'm such a quack, why do you care so much and why bother reading this or even commenting on it?

[BenBurton]

Your second paragraph is telling me to take a break from occupy, because I say what can be construed as mean things on the internet, more to the point, I am not here for your approval or disapproval, It is interesting that you disapprove of me pointing out the facts in how someone else is wrong.

I'm beginning to get the impression that your reading comprehension skills are lackluster.

[Todd]

I don't participate in OC. I haven't since I got into it with oc_housing on nov 25th. 2011. OC has gotten very few donations because it has strayed too far from it's purpose and mission. This is why I started this thread.

And yet, you feel the need to spread dis-information on the forums.
You state right there that you haven't been a part of OC since November, OC changes on an almost daily basis, yet now almost 2 months later are purporting to know what the inner workings are.

I never said the GA or vote related to 500 w. Cermak was undemocratic. However, I do think that people should re-evaluate this decision and many are doing so except for a "very minute group of individuals" like yourself.

While I did not see any references to re-evaluating the situation in any of your posts prior to this one, there are procedures already in place for this very thing, like bringing it up at GA. So you are ignoring the processes you decided you no longer wanted to be a part of, and chose instead to spread dis-information. You sound like a real stand up guy.

On another note, just the veracity of your tone suggests that you are very concerned about my post and creates the inference that it has substantial merit. If I'm such a quack, why do you care so much and why bother reading this or even commenting on it?

So what you are saying is, I should ignore when people flat out lie about OC, on the OC forums, so that when random people who want to join OC, read the forums, all they see is a bunch of lies and people fighting.

Yes that is what you would want since reading this thread alone shows that your attempts have been solely to undermine occupy, and have not been legitimate.
I do not care how much of an asshole anyone thinks I am for pointing that out, I will continue to do so. I don't think I have to be nice about it either, because unlike what you have demonstrated, I don't give up and lash out when I don't get my way.