Civil Disobedience

[revolutionseeds]

I've been Occupy Chicago for eleven cumulative days, on and off because I have school and it would be a shame to fail out of a school that I'm paying tens of thousands of dollars for. I first came when it was very small and everyone knew everyone by name. Now there are hundreds of people and it's absolutely beautiful. Though I'm very excited, I'm also getting increasingly disappointed, as are most people, with the way things are going.

I am certainly for a nonviolent movement in every aspect of the word. Those movements are the ones that provide the most change and are always remembered if done correctly. We are so lucky to have several successful movements to model ours after. IF SOMETHING WORKS IN HISTORY, DON'T BE AFRAID TO USE IT. I am in no way saying to not come up with our own ideas, I'm just saying look into what other great revolutionaries have done. There is a reason we see them as great to this day.

Occupy Chicago takes pride in their relationship with the police, and it's understandable considering what has been happening at the other Occupy Movements. But the reason the cops are being so friendly is because we are not being taken seriously. This is where civil disobedience is needed. If we comply with everything they say, we will never get anywhere. Nothing powerful will come from following the law system we are trying to protest.

No one is reacting to Chicago because Chicago doesn't seem like a threat to the system. We're not scaring anyone! I'm not saying break windows and beat people up, I'm saying show unity. Show that we're strong enough to make a difference. Yes, people argue that we will not practice civil disobedience because we don't have enough numbers. I don't remember any of the great revolutionaries waiting until they reached a certain number of people to fight with everything they have for justice. That just isn't a good enough reason. If you're passionate about change, act like it. Be brave. Not violent. Just brave.

[bebop]

Perhaps incredibly long queues of people wanting to withdraw their share of the bailout? Loop the line between a few different banks, fill out some withdrawal forms for our cut, repeat process.

[arthurdent6]

Perhaps you could be more specific about what organized acts of civil disobedience had what effects in what movements?  I would be willing to get arrested peacefully...if I thought it would have an impact.

[Tim Weaver]

I think a sit-in at BofA or any of the other banks in the area is a solid idea- provided we have a decent crowd. 

Also, although this doesn't fall under civil disobedience, I think Occupiers should close their accounts with the major banks en masse. There's already a Facebook group planning to do so on November 5th. 

We don't have to wait around to come up with a complete list of grievances- we can take definitive action whether the purported leadership of Occupychi approves of it or not.

[blacklite911]

7 people in NY tried a sit in in BoA they got arrested. I don't count that as being all that planned out.

Easy example of sit-ins with a point= Jim Crow laws saying restaurants can refuse seating based on skin color; so dozens of black people go into a restaurant and sit down and try to order. People see that the black people only want to be able to do what everyone else can do, therefor the analogy is simple and evokes sympathy amongst viewers and challenges the beliefs of racist folks who allow it.

 

Another example is in 2009 a union in chicago based Republic Windows staged a sit in because the factory were laying off the entire work force and failed to negotiate or even give fair warning to employees. So they staged a 6 day sit in at the factory which resulted the employees getting $6,000 in severance pay from Bank of America (who were the company's creditors). Funny thing about this one is that it was beloved by mainstream media because the protestors there weren't targeting them, just that one company.

 

Basically, civil disobedience has to have a plan, a goal/message, and it must be simple enough for regular people to understand.

[blacklite911]

http://actionnowdotorg.wordpress.com/

 

Come on guys, you got middle aged women willing to get arrested. I hate to use this term but Wake UP!

[wtvr]

revolutionseeds said:

I am certainly for a nonviolent movement in every aspect of the word. Those movements are the ones that provide the most change and are always remembered if done correctly. We are so lucky to have several successful movements to model ours after. IF SOMETHING WORKS IN HISTORY, DON'T BE AFRAID TO USE IT. I am in no way saying to not come up with our own ideas, I'm just saying look into what other great revolutionaries have done. There is a reason we see them as great to this day.

I really don't think any of those movements were successful, if they had been we wouldn't still be living under capitalism and the state in a racist and oppressive as fuck society. Former movements have been ineffective and took place during a completely different set of historical conditions, the state's power to monitor and police bodies has grown tremendously and our power to fight that must grow as well.

revolutionseeds said:

Occupy Chicago takes pride in their relationship with the police, and it's understandable considering what has been happening at the other Occupy Movements. But the reason the cops are being so friendly is because we are not being taken seriously. This is where civil disobedience is needed. If we comply with everything they say, we will never get anywhere. Nothing powerful will come from following the law system we are trying to protest.

The way that the 'leadership' (or whatever) have dealt with the police situation is entirely fucked up, there is a lot of anti-police sentiment among individuals within the occupations and at the general assembly. Supporting the police, thanking them, and being friendly towards them is simply racist and transmisogynistic. The police target and imprison people of color and trans folks at a much higher rate, quite often for survival crimes, and then continue to brutalize them in prisons. Yes, the police may be in similar economic situations to many of us, but the fact is that their job places them at the front lines in the defense of capital (the enemy). We are not in a civil situation, uncivil disobedience is required. The state has a monopoly on violence and it is necessary for us to take it back to destroy it.

revolutionseeds said:

No one is reacting to Chicago because Chicago doesn't seem like a threat to the system. We're not scaring anyone! I'm not saying break windows and beat people up, I'm saying show unity. Show that we're strong enough to make a difference. Yes, people argue that we will not practice civil disobedience because we don't have enough numbers. I don't remember any of the great revolutionaries waiting until they reached a certain number of people to fight with everything they have for justice. That just isn't a good enough reason. If you're passionate about change, act like it. Be brave. Not violent. Just brave.

The goal of an action should not be to make a scene or have the media or anyone else notice, reports of an action will be displayed in such a way that will neutralize its capacity to effect any change. In December 2008 in Greece, as soon as the insurrection generalized, coverage of the events halted to stop more people from joining, to make it look less powerful. We need actions that actually get to the heart of the problem and interrupt the flows of production, and interrupt the accumulation of capital.

 

Torry said:

http://actionnowdotorg.wordpress.com/

Come on guys, you got middle aged women willing to get arrested. I hate to use this term but Wake UP!

Ageism and misogyny? Cool…

[revolutionseeds]

I really don't think any of those movements were successful, if they had been we wouldn't still be living under capitalism and the state in a racist and oppressive as fuck society. Former movements have been ineffective and took place during a completely different set of historical conditions, the state's power to monitor and police bodies has grown tremendously and our power to fight that must grow as well.

 

You're seriosuly mistaken. The fact that I can sit in school with a diverse group of people is an accomplishment within itself. The fact that I'm not a slave is an accomplishment. The fact that I can use the same bathroom as anyone else is an accomplishment. That IS success. Just because you don't get a perfect society doesn't mean nothing changed. It doesn't mean we not getting better. It's ignorant to think that the movements that came before us were not successful. Former movements, such as the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT were certainly not ineffective. And of course it took place under different historical conditions! I agree that our power must grow but I do not agree that the movements before us should be discredited because we're living in a different time.

The way that the 'leadership' (or whatever) have dealt with the police situation is entirely fucked up, there is a lot of anti-police sentiment among individuals within the occupations and at the general assembly. Supporting the police, thanking them, and being friendly towards them is simply racist and transmisogynistic. The police target and imprison people of color and trans folks at a much higher rate, quite often for survival crimes, and then continue to brutalize them in prisons. Yes, the police may be in similar economic situations to many of us, but the fact is that their job places them at the front lines in the defense of capital (the enemy). We are not in a civil situation, uncivil disobedience is required. The state has a monopoly on violence and it is necessary for us to take it back to destroy it.

Supporting the police is not racist. Period.

The goal of an action should not be to make a scene or have the media or anyone else notice, reports of an action will be displayed in such a way that will neutralize its capacity to effect any change. In December 2008 in Greece, as soon as the insurrection generalized, coverage of the events halted to stop more people from joining, to make it look less powerful. We need actions that actually get to the heart of the problem and interrupt the flows of production, and interrupt the accumulation of capital.

 

Our society is dependent on social networking, the media, and technology. It is beneficial for us to get their attention. It helps the movements grow. Civil disobedience entails boycotts which is what I'm assuming you mean by interrupting the accumulation of capital and flows of production.

[ihelsabot]

[wtvr]

revolutionseeds said:

I really don't think any of those movements were successful, if they had been we wouldn't still be living under capitalism and the state in a racist and oppressive as fuck society. Former movements have been ineffective and took place during a completely different set of historical conditions, the state's power to monitor and police bodies has grown tremendously and our power to fight that must grow as well.

 

You're seriosuly mistaken. The fact that I can sit in school with a diverse group of people is an accomplishment within itself. The fact that I'm not a slave is an accomplishment. The fact that I can use the same bathroom as anyone else is an accomplishment. That IS success. Just because you don't get a perfect society doesn't mean nothing changed. It doesn't mean we not getting better. It's ignorant to think that the movements that came before us were not successful. Former movements, such as the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT were certainly not ineffective. And of course it took place under different historical conditions! I agree that our power must grow but I do not agree that the movements before us should be discredited because we're living in a different time.

The way that the 'leadership' (or whatever) have dealt with the police situation is entirely fucked up, there is a lot of anti-police sentiment among individuals within the occupations and at the general assembly. Supporting the police, thanking them, and being friendly towards them is simply racist and transmisogynistic. The police target and imprison people of color and trans folks at a much higher rate, quite often for survival crimes, and then continue to brutalize them in prisons. Yes, the police may be in similar economic situations to many of us, but the fact is that their job places them at the front lines in the defense of capital (the enemy). We are not in a civil situation, uncivil disobedience is required. The state has a monopoly on violence and it is necessary for us to take it back to destroy it.

Supporting the police is not racist. Period.

 

I agree, the civil rights movement was effective to an end, but the situation we're dealing with is quite different. The focus of Occupy Chicago is more of an economic one, and I don't believe that policy change or any sort of political reform will get to the root of the problem. Political reforms often simply make the problem more nuanced and complicated, they make that system stronger and more invulnerable. Racism takes a more subtle but often just as deadly form today. Statistics around rates of incarceration for people of color are horrifying. Slavery continues today through prison labor and segregation continues by racial economic disparity.

The goal of an action should not be to make a scene or have the media or anyone else notice, reports of an action will be displayed in such a way that will neutralize its capacity to effect any change. In December 2008 in Greece, as soon as the insurrection generalized, coverage of the events halted to stop more people from joining, to make it look less powerful. We need actions that actually get to the heart of the problem and interrupt the flows of production, and interrupt the accumulation of capital.

 

Our society is dependent on social networking, the media, and technology. It is beneficial for us to get their attention. It helps the movements grow. Civil disobedience entails boycotts which is what I'm assuming you mean by interrupting the accumulation of capital and flows of production.

 

No, I mean more like expropriation and free distribution of goods, but I don't have high hopes for that here.