Occupy Chicago

by **JP Hochbaum** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:32 am

And we really need one as well. I would love to help and aid in this. I could also gather up many ex bankers in the industry who have knowledge of the system.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/ ... -3-pm.html

by **hclasalle** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:11 am

I'm also interested, and one of my former co-workers from Lasalle Bank who were laid off by Bank of America after the takeover I'm pretty sure she'll be interested in participating.

I think the focus should be on working with credit unions on creating a complementary social currency for the Chicagoland area, but this would take a lot of community organizing (which we have little experience on) and education.

Alternate banking is broad: there are insurance products, there is trade and exchange and ethical ways of earning money, then there's wealth building.

I think there should be several teach-ins so that people in solidarity with OWS can really become familiar with how to form worker-coops and probably get consultants to assist in these processes, where we can learn about alternative currency projects that have been successful in Argentina, Ithaca New York, Berkshire and elsewhere, etc. I particularly like the Argentinian model of social money because it's decentralized, egalitarian and it's grown organically and very successfully created a new economy both in rural and urban areas: it's a very robust movement.

I think there should be a teach-in on successful non-profit health-care insurance coops.

by **quantazelle** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Count me in on this... I'm interested as well. And I can help on the tech side, or get other developers on board.

by **quantazelle** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:25 pm

I started up a discussion over here: http://occupychi.org/phpbbforumforum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=679

Let's get some finance / banker types together and work on this.

by **JP Hochbaum** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:44 pm

Okay this has taken a turn that I didn't intend for. Starting another currency is a big time federal offense, I don't mind breaking laws, but there is little benefit to starting a local currency.

As to the point in my thread. The goal for alternative banking isn't alternative currencies, but alternative theories, economically and banking wise (monetarism, monetary sovereignty, and modern money theory come to mind).

And I would like to just start with a teach in and discussion group for this. I am not trying to shut people out, but trying to jump straight into an alternative currency without discussion on it first is going a bit too far.

Let's first just start with a proposal to get a discussion group going on banking and economics, and go from there.

by **JP Hochbaum** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:52 pm

I actually own a business that gets people to buy locally, and wouldn't mind discussing how to do that, and get more people to buy into shopping locally.

by **hclasalle** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:26 pm

JP Hochbaum wrote:Okay this has taken a turn that I didn't intend for. Starting another currency is a big time federal offense, I don't mind breaking laws, but there is little benefit to starting a local currency.

Actually, it's not illegal at all --- and the benefits are many (there's another thread on that). There are several local currencies in the US, in addition to the Federal Reserve note and the silver and gold coins minted by the US Mint.

There's an 'hour' currency in Ithaca, New York.
There are barkshares in Berkshire, Mass.

There are several other local currencies (the 'cheers' in Detroit come to mind). As long as they don't try to say that they are the federal currency, local currencies are perfectly legal and we have a long history of old currencies also (some of them have been recently revived, like the North Carolina 'plenty').

Also, Utah, South Carolina and about a dozen other states have laws pending approval to create state currencies (as per the Constitution, which allows for states to mint their own currencies as long as they are backed by gold or silver).

As for alternative banking, I'm not sure that I follow you: I agree that people should study economics and money theory (from the perspective of human liberation and human values) but ultimately for what? You speak of monetary sovereignty but then you accept the Federal Reserve, a private for-profit bank, having the power and the monopoly to produce all the currency in the country and earn interest, ultimately, from all the student loans, credit cards, mortgages, car loans in the country ... even the government borrows and pays interest to just this one bank because not even the gov't can issue its own currency, as per the Constitution.

This reminds me of the time I went to the Encyclopedia of Economics and found their definition of the work 'union': basically the economists study unions as CARTELS OF HUMANS. As dehumanizing as that sounds.

The teaching of economics is such a docile tool in the hands of the elite that the fact that capitalism was built on slavery is entirely transparent. We humans are a commodity, we were property from the beginning and now you can't own us but you can rent us for labor, and there are even cartels for us, and these cartels are seen as dangerous by the elite who want cheap human labor ... read it for yourself, and notice the anti-union spin placed on the entire article:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/LaborUnions.html

And so if we do discuss monetary theory, we should make it a ground rule to not entangle ourselves in the prevalent rhetorics and the propaganda of the banking elite. To do so from a critical and careful perspective.

by **JP Hochbaum** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:29 am

Okay I get the distinction between a local currency and federal currency now, thanks for clearing that up.

As for the federal reserve, like with any sytem, it's flaw comes with how its run and the people that run it, not the system itself.

The federal reserve has officials that are appointed, not democratically elected. So if they were elected it would force people to educate themselves on the federal reserve system, and in turn the system would be beholden to us not to congress and the President.

by **JP Hochbaum** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:40 am

hclasalle wrote:As for alternative banking, I'm not sure that I follow you: I agree that people should study economics and money theory (from the perspective of human liberation and human values) but ultimately for what? You speak of monetary sovereignty but then you accept the Federal Reserve, a private for-profit bank, having the power and the monopoly to produce all the currency in the country and earn interest, ultimately, from all the student loans, credit cards, mortgages, car loans in the country ... even the government borrows and pays interest to just this one bank because not even the gov't can issue its own currency, as per the Constitution.

While the federal reserve is touted as "private", and it is, it is still run by the government.

Who do you think orders the reserve to print money for wars, which are off budget?

It is vital to learn that the federal reserve could be the tool to supply full employment, and higher wages through monetary and fiscal policy.

by **CYoung** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:29 am

Who do you think orders the reserve to print money for wars, which are off budget?

The government "purchases" Federal Reserve Notes by issuing Treasury Bonds.

The government does not "order" the Fed to do anything, they engage in a business transaction which provides the Fed with a return on their investment.

Money IS debt.

"If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money."
-Marriner Eccles (Governor of the Federal Reserve)